The interview with A. Popov – the scientific director of the Open Corporate University « The Liberal Education School», the candidate of philosophic sciences
Mikhail Nemtsev: Alexander, is that the humanitarian technology that the intensive summer schools represent themselves?
Alexander Popov: Yes, exactly. In our version, “humanitarian” refers to the organization of the space of man’s event. Thus, the goal we mind first of all during the organization of the humanitarian training – is the organization and providing with reflection (self-analysis). It is when the participant sees his reflection as in the mirror of the event – the devices of his communication, the work of his thinking. At the end of the event they turn into the real result – into the participant’s rating, into his self-esteem and the attitude of those around one towards him. In this particular sense, it is not the same as the well-known skillful “business-trainings”. We set another aims.
MN: Why do you call the series of the summer intensive schools – the mass training?
AP: In the first place, from the very beginning they were meant for simultaneous participation of about two hundred people. It is not an individual consultation. In the second place, this training can be realized only as the mass training: the individuality reveals itself on the mass’ background. And, in the third place, besides the profound competences, the participants get the feel of mass or through competences: taking up the solutions, reorganization of the resources, i.e. creation of the productive situations, cooperation and collective co-organization, self-determination and self-organization.
MN: “The individuality reveals itself on the mass’ background”. Should we reckon these words so that the organization of the session or training presumes the division of the participants into the “elite” and “mass”?
AP: Both yes and no. We need the event of the deed. And the deed in its turn – is always the social phenomenon. It is produced “in public”. And in this sense, such event for a single man is mostly – the trial of being in public. For those, who have taken part in this trial, the event took place at its full degree. The skill of technology lies in the involvement of the majority of the participants into this trial. I think we have gained this skill.
MN: When exactly does this qualitative transition happen, after which the series of the intensive schools – as the aggregate of the events for two hundred participants – we can consider as the mass training?
AP: This question is very good and complicated as well. Most likely, such transition happens at that time when in different parts of the country we can observe the similar anthropological effects in the participants of this event. And when the group is able to work out the technology in any situation in spite of everything. By the way, I want to underline, that I always know whether the event has gained or not taking into consideration the feelings of mine as the expert.
MN: What does the event mean in this particular case? It is certainly not the show-business.
AP: I agree with B. Elkonin, when he speaks about the event in the following way: “the participant tried, but couldn’t do it completely, and he realized it”. And this also means, that the event is created with the help of the attitude, isn’t it? I will say firmly: the majority of people dislike losing and can’t lose. And if we refer to the etymology of this word, we can see, that to lose – doesn’t mean to be conquered. It means “to go through a game”. And it is not clear, who gains more – a non-problematic winner or a reflective loser. The human strength lies mostly in that fact that it is not necessarily to win in some micro situations, but what is really important it is the ability to overcome oneself, time and space at the long distances. By the way, as usual, there are practically no competitors at these long distances. In my opinion, Efim Ostrovskiy minds the very fact when writes about the competition with oneself.
MN: Are there practically no competitors because they get out of the way or simply you find yourself in such a place or space where the competitors can’t possibly exist?
AP: That’s all the same.
MN: How far is the technology of conducting of such intensive schools and such trainings worked out for today? Can we consider it a ready-made modulus that can be carried out in any place and being not connected with any region or even the territory of the country in its content?
AP: From my point of view, everything is ready. Only with the exception of one important detail, over which I’m working at present time: it is the preparation of the probationers, who can be not only tutors and trainers at the event, but the supervisors of the process of unfolding the whole technology. For me personally, there is a real challenge in it – in passing my experience and my competences.
MN: Are there any analogous mass training in the sphere of Russian humanitarian technologies?
AP: To begin with, I want to say that nowadays the mass trainings are on the top of discussion (especially after the appropriate game of the Cultural Policy School of Peter Schedrovickiy) in the humanitarian and technological and methodological association. I take part in these discussions, but nevertheless I try to keep to my point of view.
I am not only a creator, but also a producer and a manager. On the one hand, it can be considered as - the firm self-limitation, because it means: if you express your thought, it must be realized. If you can’t realize it – so keep silence. And I talk about the training considering this fact.
During the year I work with nearly two thousand people and meet with them not only once. Each of my disciples, colleagues and followers works with nearly five hundred people. As a result - it is about 20000 participants. In general, not so many and not so few (at least, for the educational program that is not engaged with the big politics). I can firmly say that our technologies beat their way owing to the content that is being worked out for many years owing to the philosophical and ideological background, owing to the serious technological and methodological execution. We are not the lobbyists and fortunately or unfortunately, don’t even possess such skills. I consider it is the first experience of this kind in the country. There were the similar programs on the similar scale in due time – for instance, “New Civilization” (“Open Russia”). Nowadays, the programs of the youth political organizations exist but they still leave the impression of being mostly organized for the sake of television broadcast but not for anthropological effects!
MN: The status of education and teaching in the mass training… Can mass training be realized as the educational program?
AP: As you understand I’m interested in education. At the same time I provide for the teaching process within the education. And the other way is impossible. In this sense, I consider, the majority of teaching trainings devoted to elementary traditional organizational skills have no prospects. In my point of view, the mass training can be only educational or ideological. There is no single reason, due to which it is expedient to organize the mass training.
MN: How much successful are the graduates of programs at the traditional professional careers?
AP: They are successful. Nevertheless, they don’t feel at ease in usual functional organs and structures, especially in the latest years of the so-called “stabilization”. These people, as a rule, head for the high service practices and business creation. And nowadays “stabilization” is a middle or even low level of using the human potential in Russia. That is why I feel satisfaction when our graduates find their way here or abroad.
MN: What fundamental practices do the participants master here?
AP: The fundamental practice is the self-determination. It is, so to say, profound existentional practice. The second one is superficial – managing, administrational, the practice of social organization, that is realized, for instance, when the participants organize their collectives. And finally, a subject and strategy practice is the spatial and territorial orientation. It is that we call “the geography of human prospects”.
At that we can say that the content is meant for inclusion into profound practice of self-determination in the LES (the Liberal Education School) and it is the fundamental sense of the whole pedagogical program of self-determination. The very practice forms the whole life space of the LES graduate. But in order to do this it must be supported by other fundamental practices – (1) strategic disposition of oneself in life spaces, and (2) formation of the collective interaction in different scales – from smaller groups up to the corporate communities.
MN: How does the conception of the school “Record life strategies” (SRS) correlate with the well-known in native educational practice – conception of “gifted children”? Does the SRS deal with the development of “children’s giftedness”?
AP: “Gifted children” is a popular metaphor. But nobody has worked at it seriously yet. From my point of view, so called “gifted” children are those who have no banal life strategies, who have not trite and far-sighted life aims, that is all.
MN: And what is the measuring scale of the “non-banality” of these aims? What should the graduate correlate his aims and purposes with?
AP: These aims, first of all, have nothing to do with shallow pragmatic account. It is a search of your way in cultural practices. It is realizing of oneself as an element of human culture, moreover as its innovative element, understanding your role and mission in the development of any cultural tradition, system of activity and practice.
MN: And is there any contradiction between the school’s aims of priority, on the one hand, forming national ideology of servicing to the closed State and, on the other hand, – striving of big business just to order the preparation of highly-skilled staff?
AP: Frankly speaking, I haven’t heard about such orders from any of the sides. I think there is no sense to form the local patriotism. Nowadays patriotism is impossible without reflection. It is comprehension of the country, its history and culture in the context of world history and world contemporaneity. And understanding of your place in this country is possible only thereupon.
Patriotism is also the possibility to see the competitive aspects of your own culture and advantages of other nations. And this is patriotism or, speaking a modern language, – the self-identity.
As for the high-skilled staff and corporate ideologies… So it’s well-known that a man of to-day is more than just a business. In general, there are a lot of books devoted to this topic – I mean “Funk-style Business” by Nordstrem and Ridderstrale[1], and other books of the kind. It becomes more obvious that high professionalism and corporations are not often close concepts. That is so, because high-skilled professional is a free professional. And the free professional is able to define himself a mission, a goal and all that, about what I’ve already said. It should be noted that they understand it in the West and in this sense – they are hunting for minds.
The native business in its turn doesn’t put such extra aims because it’s young and hasn’t entered the era of global thinking yet. It is experiencing the stage of self-realization. The rapid creation of the so-called “corporate ideologies” often starts within this process. Fortunately or unfortunately, I can’t take these intellectual products seriously. It is high time for corporations to realize that it is the sign of ignorance or temporary delusions of grandeur to regard their labour etiquette as “ideology” and, moreover, as philosophy.
MN: Thank you. And the last question – from another, so to say, “lower” sphere that inevitably arises when discussing such programs: What sources of this program’s finance are? And who is the real customer?
AP: Nowadays customers of the LES educational activity are administrations of federation’s subjects, administrations of cities, big business positioning itself in the territory. It is also private deposits of private persons and periodic granted investments.
So as you see, there is no single source and no single customer as well. This allows you to remain yourself.
[1]Nordstrem K., Ridderstrale Y. Funk-style Business. Talent Makes Capital Dance. SPb.: Stockholm School of Economics in Saint Petersburg, 2003.
