Participants of discussion:
Anatoly SEMYONOV – Member of State Duma Expert Board on law regulation and defence of intellectual property, Research Manager of Guild for development of audio- and video market;
Olga SINITSYNA – Deputy Director General, M.I.Rudomino All-Russia State Library for Foreign Literature;
Tatiana Maistrovich - Head of Electronic Libraries department, Russian State Library;
Alexey KUZMIN- Director General, LitRes Libraries Group;
Alexander DOLGIN – Head of Recommendation Internet-service IMHO-club, Professor of State University – Higher School of Economics;
Viktor MONAKHOV – Professor of UNESCO department for copyright and other branches of right and intellectual property;
Anton SERGO - President of “Internet and Law” Company.
A. Semyonov: I got fully acquainted with the law, which comes into force in 2008. One of the articles of the 4th part of Civil Code, adjusting the activities of companies with collective management, i.e. organisations with a status of electronic library, is formulated rather vaguely. There is still large legal vacuum. For instance, any organisation with collective management could represent unlimited number of authors, and it is able to distribute any number of licences with any notification, i.e. in fact, it could have no permission to do that. And still it would operate within legal framework. For those who do not know, I will add that one of the main barrier to enter WTO for Russia was the claim to musical service, selling the music in mp3 format, which actually also represented e-library, but only for music.
In order to improve that situation, the 4th part of Civil Code prescribes to the organisations with collective management to work only by direct contracts with rights owners, excluding the number of organisations close to the state which will have special accreditation. Why am I telling about it? Because in 2008 it could seriously change the landscape and the logic of relationship between authors with different companies and organisations which represent their rights. It is possible, if the Expert Board where I work as a member will make some alterations to that article of Civil Code, because in fact, there will be only one appointed responsible organisation for the rights defence of literary Internet audience, and it will be its ownership. The rest will have to find every author and get the permission for the next publication. In new version of Civil Code everything, which not directly authorised, is forbidden.
Unfortunately, I still do not see any adjusted state policy toward the libraries. As I understood, the serious increase of funding was promised, but without clear objectives, it is mainly concluded in nothing, but increase of inflation.
That is all about the libraries. What could I say about readers and authors? I would like to draw your attention that authors regard obscurity as a greater danger than piracy. Classic example is Bill Gates. Without pirates, his operational system would never be so popular as it is in our country and in the whole world. Hence, it is not correct to deprive the authors of right to be heard for free, i.e. to deprive them of communication. Libraries should be just libraries, not any commercial organisation in the form of reading hall, which could run such legal regulations.
From my point of view, the reading is very limited today. Either people listen to something in the car, or with rare exception look through the news headlines, so severe limitation of access to the libraries and literary resources looks not very rational. We should pay attention at least to Google, which digitise now all accessible materials. And digitisation of rather rare sources demands greater attention from the state. And I hope the funding within that programme will be aimed to that point.
Moderator: I would like to pass the word to Alexey Kuzmin, the Head of LitRes Libraries Group in order to know his attitude to e-libraries. Why did you decide to integrate? On what conditions? What will it bring to users, to libraries? It is clear that your initiative came from below due to the lack of state programs. Although in developed countries the projects to support e-libraries appeared even in the 1990s.
A. Kuzmin: Electronic libraries started to be created rather chaotically about 15 years ago, almost along with the appearance of computers (in Russia). First, electronic texts were re-printed, and then scanners appeared, the text recognition software. Electronic libraries have been roughly developed for the last five years. The problem of copyright became very sharp. In order not to become pirates, the libraries should have paid royalties. Hence, they should earn money.
The company “LitRes” integrated the number of large libraries into general structures. Our statement is following: neither readers nor authors should suffer, and we must find the appropriate business schemes. We offer to reader the following options: online-reading with content protection, money is charged by advertising model with obligatory royalties to authors.
The second option is to download text with the following free use: reading on hand computer, printing etc. That is additional service which provides the number of comforts, and we think that here we could collect a certain payment. With an exception when an author permits to use the text for free by contract. Naturally, there is a notion of public domain – these are works which are not under the copyright law anymore. In present time it is 70 years after the author’s death. If the term is expired, the work could be used as public property for free. For example, the works by Tolstoy, Dostoevsky.
But here also could be a copyright issue, which goes to translators and publishers, who made an editing. Under Bern convention, the royalties of translated works are divided in the following way: 75% - to author of original work and 25% - to translator. If there is no other agreements.
Now if you look any citation, you can type it and look through the searching engine in the Internet. After a while you will not be able to do that. The citations will not be found anymore, and book will pass to protection mode. At that moment LitRes will certainly start to adjust the collaboration with searching engines. There is a service books.google.ru, where you could find the citations from large amount of books. As a search result, you can see only a certain piece of text in order to understand what book or text and how it looks word by word. There is no possibility to copy the work completely.. Oleg Kolesnikov, General Director of Copyright in Internet Agency |
Also we still provide the free online-reading which we consider to be principally important. By our analysis, around 40% readers do not go further than the first page of the site. Only 10 % come to an end. It means that people test the choice “will I buy – or not”, they should not pay for the test.
In addition to content legalisation the libraries integration was aimed at a number of things: it is impossible to coordinate the activities of many different libraries – what has already been scanned, what has not… There is no general database of texts and authors, and it makes the search much more complicated. The library could be closed for different reasons and its database would be lost. We united the large libraries and already created the general database of all works, authors, and translators. In fact, it is a database of editions, appeared in the Internet during the last 10-15 years. For users comfort we transferred all the libraries in the united format fb2. And now we develop the new format fb3 which let us work with formulas, lots of pictures and tables, and digitise, for example, text-book on physics. In one word, we actively run through transformations which will facilitate the access to content and its quality.
Moderator. Here is a scheme which gives a response to copyright issue. What could lawyers and economists say? Let us start with jurisprudence. The floor is given to Viktor Monakhov, and then to Alexander Dolgin – expert in the field of culture economics.
V. Monakhov: I would like to support the idea which has already been announced – about organisation and legal mechanism of creation and development of e-libraries as a national programme. So far our state is interested in it, it is well seen by presence (in fact, by absence) of representatives of state structures which could be responsible for that. The interest to electronic libraries is permanently increasing from below: the new structures appeared in that field. And probably, our common task is to push the state to the launch of programme for Russian e-libraries development. Other developed countries are already come to that minimum 10 years ago. “Outsider effect” is always a possibility to overcome the problems, known by other practices. In my vision, the joined efforts of state, civil society, business structures, working in that field should be effective. There is a Public Committee for community libraries development, but there is no visible work. Once we gathered, distributed the responsibilities and that was all. And there is an urgent need in certain changes in legal documentation. There are legal “mines”, which brought the 4th part of CC and alterations to the law “About copyright and allied rights” from July 20, 2004. And there is a possibility to “demine” them.
A. Dolgin: If you allow, I will try to state the essence of case from economist’s point of view. There is now a possibility to keep, to process and to provide by any address the huge information flood. It seems that from the point of public good it is very positive: because the task, which face every society, is matched – citizens are provided with access to information. In fact, two problems occurred. First, the problem of money – who will pay for that? Second, how to protect the authors, who are not ready to enjoy just the public admiration and would like to receive something for their works.
All texts could be divided in two groups: with expired copyright and with valid copyright. The readers’ attention is mainly concentrated on the second group, even the classics are here, because it is covered by the rights of translators, publishers, etc. And while the state and NGOs are in anguished meditation, the business participants of that domain operate. At their own risk and responsibility they worked out the business models, which could conciliate the copyrights limits and provide the access to information, giving the rights to the compatriots. Such work is now made by LitRes libraries partnership, which, to my mind, reached the visible success: they formed the huge database of books (more than one and half hundred thousand), digitised them mainly on their own account and loaded in readable format. They swiftly develop the relations with authors and pay royalties. In terms of economics it is very positive process. There are decisions, which already eliminated the ticketless passengers problem, and we could get rid of the users, who accustomed to get everything for free and at the same time to provide the open access to information. The most important question is: where does money come from? How does e-library earn and survive? There are two traditional and one innovation scheme of money receiving. Traditional ones are known to everyone. I am surprised to watch the confusion among the state libraries. The state television is aware, where to take money? The state libraries could take money from the same pocket – an advertising model. Reading is free for user. But at the same time, he/she watches commercials, which are paid by advertisers. This money could cover the library operational work and authors honorariums. The second option is to have no advertising, but to charge for access and use of content – by page, by book, by download, as you wish. The third option, which libraries of LitRes attempt to realise, is the following: no advertising, content is free. And fee is paid only for the service around the information, the comfort for its delivery, usage and many, many other things. In fact, that decision is the most correct in terms of public prosperity. All three options should be represented in the same service of one e-library. What are they? The information is accessible and free. At the same time, there is a generator of royalties’ payments to the authors and people which collect, process and represent that information, etc. Any user has a right to choose: free model (in fact, it is pseudo free because the man works as advertising observer), or user who pays not big money and released from the commercials. Freedom of choice is the valuable public decision.
In certain circles, there is no understanding of pseudo gratis. In addition, there are free pirate systems with very low quality of content when one should spend hours in order to recognise the fake files and program parasites and to get to the good file. That human being makes the same expenses, but not monetary. Now we hear the public voices that are saying: “We are deprived of free access”. In fact, we speak about the oppression of another part of society which does not agree to make not monetary expenses and would like to pay in five times less rather than to pay by its time a spoiled mood, and to have quality text without any charges. Thus, I repeat, the decision should be made in order to satisfy the interests of all, and to provide the possibility of better choice.
Moderator: We have the representatives of traditional libraries. Let us hear their point of view.
T. Maystrovitch: Still nobody mentioned the project “National Electronic Libraries” which in fact plays the role of state programme. Now there are two libraries in it: Russian State and Russian National Libraries. In February at the conference of Russian Association of Electronic Libraries (please, notice, that RSL was the initiator and one of the founders of Association) it was said that project “National E-libraries” now switch to the level of national Russian project and it will be connected to the largest libraries of our countries. In that sense, I feel a bit strange when all talks are going at business level.
After all, it is important not only to provide the text, but also to store it in an electronic version. Now the new version of law “On Librarianship” is developed, and we try to write down the issues on e-libraries activities. It is about the alteration to the law “On Obligatory Documentation Centre”, and it is discussed right now. We would like to expand to electronic field. It is real, because in some regional laws it has been already written. The official state storage will receive a copy of any electronic publication or a digitised version. Also, according to the present law, we must provide all the information in our collection for free. The law “On Librarianship” introduces the idea of “state library information storage”. It means that we would be considered as one library, and electronic documents of RSL should be accessible in every village library.
A. Kuzmin: And how copyright issue would be solved in that case?
T. Maystrovitch: By present law, being the library we are able to provide free access.
A. Dolgin: But you speak about virtual reading hall, it means that it is not within the real library walls.
T. Maystrovitch: Under our statute, it is our reading hall. Still the law let us consider it.
Replics from audience: Anything could be written in your statute, but life is different.
T.Maystrovitch: Anyway we will definitely find the legal solution in order to run the principal function of public library – to provide free access to information. Probably the state could fund the option to pay royalties. I understand that our programme “National E-library” neither covers nor closes all problems. Some of them are getting even sharper. That is why I support the idea of elaboration of state programme of e-libraries. At first, it should solve the problem of coordination of scanned texts. Now there is a multiple scanning of the same books in library system. It is waste of money from economic point of view. But the most frightening thing is that valuable and rare books are also scanned, being the national property. The scanning is made on bad equipment, harmful to original edition. That is why business e-libraries and the state libraries, operating in that field, should move together and take in account the presence of each other in Internet.
O. Sinitsyna: I feel rather less romantic and enthusiastic about the national programme “Electronic Libraries”, because we have already been so many times the hostages of that idea: we’ll alter the law, and it will make an effect. But nothing happened, unfortunately. That is why a new law “On Librarianship” would hardly bring any positive results. Despite the 94th law, which even aggravated the position of libraries in our country, although there is a space for money and minds. I am also startled by the confidence of our two main libraries, which are sure that law “About Obligatory Copy” works in our country. In fact, it does not, even with printed publications.
I am also rather sceptic about the political statements, made by the new Presidential Library, which should have the digitised collection. In the US the campaign for digitisation of national library collection, launched by the Library of Congress at the beginning of 1990s, finished rather quickly, because it faced the financial issue as well as the ratio of man-hour, etc. In our country there was already a wave of consortiums and seminars and after all every library works by its own programme of digitisation, with their own priorities, copying one thousand time the same things. Museums libraries, which have just been born, do not know about other programs at all.
I am very glad that the initiative was launched by civil society and business structures. The initiative, aimed at the collaboration with the existed state libraries as well as with the current structures that know the rules of the game and could structure the information correctly. The main positive thing, I’d like to notice is the integration of LitRes Library Group, because that partnership shows, how important it is to build the navigation in order to foresee the different options of search. The activities of LitRes have created the preconditions to solve the problems, which in different electronic libraries, existing either incontrolled or free space, have never been solved. There were no common standards because there was no such a task. I hope it would facilitate the communication with the state libraries, their electronic catalogues and standards.
Moderator: You have just mentioned the recommendation service. And I would like to ask the question to Alexander. What is your role within LitRes project? What is under the integration of recommendations service IMHO-club and on-line libraries? Is it possible to use the recommendation service in the state libraries?
A. Dolgin: Apart of funding problem the e-libraries face one more obstacle. Imagine that myriad of text will be digitised, and loaded in very convenient format. Let us suppose they will be structured and catalogued professionally, etc. Still there is unsolved problem of users navigation and users choice in that endless mass of information. Special recommendation service – IMHONET (www.imhonet..ru) represents the democratic, accessible to anyone and efficient system of navigation in the information flood. Without such information service the library as an institute will start drifting to the role of archive. The proclaimed task “to store a model” is an archival task. The first library task is to “serve a user”.
The integration of recommendation service IMHONET and LitRes libraries is a standard vertical integration when user could choose what to read in one place and at the same time to see the recommended text, to press the button and to buy – an e-version or to make an order for printed edition in Internet-shop. A user becomes the main figure of the process. And I think it is hard to make better contribution for reading development.
